Category: Interview

“We need to explain more clearly for people to
understand what traditional Chinese medicine
does, and what it is able to heal.”
An interview with Ms. Doris Rathgeber,
Founder and General Manager of
Body & Soul Medical Clinics

“Every problem needs an individual solution. At Body & Soul, we are committed to a holistic health philosophy, combining natural treatment with the best medical science. We are also a multi-disciplinary team of experts dedicated to pain management and rehabilitation, our therapists use modern manual techniques and their vast knowledge, while providing the most gentle, natural treatment.” So says Ms. Doris Rathgeber, Bachelor of Traditional Chinese Medicine, General Manager and Founder of Body & Soul Medical Clinics.

Body & Soul Medical Clinics was founded to provide a healing place where the international community could benefit from the ancient wisdom of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) to address their modern health needs.  And it has evolved into Shanghai’s top integrative medicine resource, offering comprehensive diagnosis and treatment at convenient one-stop solution clinics for health and worry-free medical care with responsive customer service and insurance processing in Shanghai.

Before coming to Shanghai with her husband Ekkehard in 1995, Doris was a sales woman for a software and hardware company in Germany. Upon arrival, having always been very interested in medicine, she first studied Chinese for two years before starting her education in Traditional Chinese Medicine.

Doris received a bachelor degree in Traditional Chinese Medicine from the University for Traditional Chinese Medicine and Pharmacology where she studied from 1997 to 2003. She founded and is operating four Body & Soul – Medical Clinic in Shanghai, offer TCM consultations, along with TCM treatments such as acupuncture, cupping and Tuina-massage, physiotherapy, osteopathy, chiropractic, functional medicine, orthopedics, and psychological consultations. The clinics are also well equipped with laboratories to perform Western diagnoses and pharmacies to hand out Western and Chinese medication solutions.

As the Founder and General Manager Medical Director of Body & Soul, Doris delivers speeches to several international organizations to raise awareness about Traditional Chinese Medicine. SpaChina found the opportunity to interview her.

What brought you into the TCM world?

When I came to China and I started studying Chinese language, I finished after about two years, and I didn’t want to only study the language so my friend who was a TCM doctor introduced me to Chinese medicine and I wanted to study some massage techniques. She enrolled me to the bachelor program for traditional Chinese medicine of internal medicine and I did not choose western medicine because Chinese medicine studies includes history, philosophy, and medicine, and this is what I really liked about it. When I started to study the Chinese medicine I did not know that I would ever be able to finish the studies as we were supposed to go back after three to five years after arriving in China. So I was lucky I could finish.

This year is the 15th anniversary for Body & Soul, please tell us briefly about the development story of Body & Soul.

After finishing the studies of traditional Chinese medicine my husband and I decided to open a consulting company with me doing consulting for TCM and my husband doing consulting for media. That was in 2003. For my side, after doing consulting about the Chinese medicine for half a year, I realized that it is not enough to be a consultant in that area but we needed a clinic so that we could prescribe medicine, we could do treatments, that we could do diagnosis with western medicine diagnosis tools. So we applied for the first clinic in 2003, and in July 2004 we opened the first Body & Soul – The TCM Clinic close to XinTianDi.  Two years later, we decided to open our second clinic in the Minhang / Hong Qiao area where a lot of foreigners live. They asked me to come a little bit closer to them. So in the year that my son was born, in 2006, we opened our second clinic.

The third clinic came in 2010. That was a very small clinic, only for acupuncture basically, that we opened in the Four Seasons Hotel in Jing’an. Someone in the management read an article about our clinic and decided that they wanted to have acupuncture as a treatment method in their hotel.

The fourth clinic was opened in 2012 and was specially opened for Pudong area, as we have many patients in that area after it developed.

For me, the most difficult part was in that context to find the employees, the colleagues that I have. Actually, all my colleagues are the biggest treasure that I have, a great team of approximately 100 people by now.

Compared with other TCM clinics in China, what is unique about Body & Soul?

I think the combination of different treatments, the combination of western and Chinese medicine, the more western style management and the time that we have for our patients. On top of that, we designed our clinics always with art and medicine in mind, so each of the three big clinics that we have has a topic and a theme. The first clinic was our first TCM clinic and so the decoration is all about Chinese medicine. All the things that we collected about traditional Chinese medicine are framed and we also designed the ceiling and the walls according to TCM ideas. The second clinic is a clinic for western and Chinese medicine. It’s an integrative clinic and so the art that you find in the second clinic in Minhang is also a combination of east and west, western and Chinese art. There was a german artist in Shanghai and he established a cooperation with a Chinese artist and sold the art pieces that resulted from their cooperation for the decoration of our second clinic.

And although the third clinic is also a pure TCM clinic, we decided to give the clinic in Pudong, the newest lifestyle area in Shganghai, to give it a very modern and very easy decoration. So, all these together with the German management style, a very free and liberal management style concerning all our therapists and doctors, I think that’s unique.

Who are your patients? What are they looking for from Body & Soul?

We have patients from all over the world. Most of our patients, 80%, are caucasians, around 10% are Japanese and another 10% are Chinese patients. We welcome everybody in our clinics and we offer solutions for all of them. 

Most of our patients come with pains. Headaches and neck pains are our major field, after that we see gynecology patients who come with irregular period, pain in the period, menopause and all the questions on female health and all the problems that come with the period. Traditional Chinese medicine gynecology does not work with hormones, so we can help a lot with herbal medicine and acupuncture in this field.

We have a lot of patients with internal problems, colds, belly pains, diarrhea, constipation and everything in the internal medical field. And third is skin. So, acne, eczema and all the things that are related to the skin, we can also work with.

What are the differences between foreigners and Chinese patients?

An easy answer to that is that the Chinese patients know what we are talking about, so that they know that we do wang-wen-wen-qie, the four different diagnoses forms in Chinese medicine, they know that we use not good tasting herbal medicine, they know that it takes a bit time to heal chronic diseases with traditional Chinese medicine, and so on.  Foreign patients need a lot of explanation. We need to explain what is the philosophy behind the Chinese medicine, and what are we treating in the Chinese medicine.  So, you need to imagine that the foreign patient doesn’t know or understand the concept of Qi, so the vital substance qi, which is the most important energy that we work with, and which we heal, this is our goal. The foreign patients do not even know it because it doesn’t exist in the Western philosophy. So this is a major difference. If we treat foreigners who are having contact with Chinese medicine for the first time, we need to reduce the amount of herbs because the bodies react very strongly. But the foreigners accept the Chinese medicine very well and they have an excellent healing result. It’s amazing.

Do they have different body types and requirements from the doctors? Do they have different philosophies for wellness living? 

About the wellness concept of foreign and Chinese patients, also here, we have completely different lifestyles. Let me give you some examples. For example, drinking cold drinks, eating raw food, exercising during the period, all these are things that Chinese people wouldn’t even think about, but for foreigners, this is completely normal. It is not a better or a worse, it is just completely different because of different philosophy and different beliefs. But we embrace all the different approaches, and we always like to explain why in Chinese medicine we do things differently, why is the Chinese diet completely different and why is exercise completely different as well.

What are the advantages and challenges for a foreigner like you to establish a TCM clinic in China?

It is certainly challenging to be a foreigner and to open a clinic for Chinese medicine. Opening a clinic overall is challenging, and we have to stick to the regulations or the law, and if you stick to the law and you fulfill all the requirements of the government, then everything should be fine. But we spent a lot of time to fulfill all the requirements, and to work lawfully and responsibly for our patients.

How do you see the future of TCM in China and worldwide?

This is a very good question and it is something that also frustrates me a little bit. I do personally think that the traditional Chinese medicine doesn’t have such a bright future in China itself. Why is that? I feel at the moment that Chinese people who walked slowly and participated in taiqi before, they are now starting to run. And that means that they do not have the time for their bodies that they had before, and they also do not take the time for healing with their own medical system. So this is the frustrating part. The Chinese people ignore Chinese medicine more and more, especially the younger generation who are absolutely not fond of traditional Chinese medicine. So very often I realize all of the scientists and all the universities of Chinese medicine do not do a proper job in selling their wonderful medical system. That really frustrates me. In foreign countries, there are more people who are much more into the Chinese medicine and they explain the theory behind it and the use for everyone much more efficiently than the Chinese people can by themselves.

This is not a criticism but just a matter of fact. All of the people who study Chinese medicine, who work with Chinese medicine, and work in the research field, need to explain more clearly for people to understand what does the traditional Chinese medicine do, and what it is able to heal. Sometimes what we see and read is too sophisticated, it needs to be explained more simply. Not the medicine itself, but how it works so that people can understand better.

What is your own lifestyle for balanced wellness living? What are the key points for keeping healthy?

In my family, we use traditional Chinese medicine if we are sick, and also to prevent. So if we notice that something is coming up, like a cold or a belly pain, or whatever, then very fast, I will apply herbal medicine for everyone in my family, including my pets. Now how do we keep healthy and what is our lifestyle. We are all athletic people. My son is a competitive swimmer, so he needs to eat a lot and eat very healthy. Certainly, he exercises a lot. Maybe not healthy for traditional Chinese medicine, because the Chinese medicine doesn’t suggest us to exercise every day. They would like to have us exercising every second day, so that the Qi can recover on the second day. So for my husband and me, we are both in our fifties already, so we like to exercise every second day, but that doesn’t mean that we take it easy. We exercise also with a personal trainer, and we exercise very strenuously, and we really exercise a lot. We try to maintain our weight, we like to drink a good glass of wine, but not excessively, so maybe just one glass. We like to have a good rest, we like to work hard, so we try to keep everything balanced. The most important element is the diet, and in the summers time we like to eat fresh and raw food, so that according to Chinese medicine we can help our body to stay cool, and when the fall comes, and of course the winter, our nutrition will change, and we have more warming food. In winter, we have a lot of food that keeps you really really warm, with a lot of spices and ginger and chili and all the food items that keep you warm. That is what we practice, what we do, and with this we can really stay healthy, in China or anywhere in the world.

“TCM and TCW belong to Chinese people everywhere and to the world, because they come from an understanding of deep organizing principles of Nature and human physiology. ” An  interview with Professor Gerry Bodeker, Chair, Mental Wellness Initiative of the Global Wellness Institute

A Harvard-trained public health academic, Professor Gerry Bodeker researches and advises on integrative medicine and wellness. He has taught in Medical Sciences at Oxford University for two decades, is adjunct professor of epidemiology at Columbia University, and works with the private sector, governments and the UN, advising on culturally-themed wellness strategies.

Gerry chairs the Mental Wellness Initiative of the Global Wellness Institute and received the Debra Simon A ward for Leadership in Mental Wellness at the Global Wellness Summit in Singapore in October 2019. He is also co-director of the new forest immersion wellness program in Borneo, Ayus Wellness.

Gerry has published widely, including on health and wellness traditions of Asia. He is Editor in Chief of the World Heath Organization Global Atlas of Traditional and Complementary Medicine, co-editor of Understanding the Global Spa Industry and Editor of Mental Wellness: Pathways, Evidence, Horizons (2018). He is currently contributing to the Asian Development Bank’s 2020 report on the wellness industry in Asia and co-editing an academic book on Healthy Ageing in Asia.

SpaChina interviewed Professor Gerry Bodeker on the topic of Traditional Chinese Medicine.

As a traditional way of healing, what is the current status of traditional Chinese medicine globally, and why?

Perhaps people in China may not be aware of this, but globally TCM is the best-known and most widespread traditional medicine system in the world today. There are a number of reasons for this. The first is that there have been more than 25 years of good research into the various TCM therapies and their health outcomes and this has provided evidence to health authorities around the world to have confidence in granting licenses to TCM practitioners to provide medical services in many countries. Another factor has been the work of China itself in promoting TCM globally through conferences, scientific exchanges, resolutions at the World Health Organization, and funding for TCM research programs around the world. India’s Ayurvedic medical system is now also gaining ground based on the same principles, but there is no doubt that TCM was first on the world stage and has the biggest global presence and acceptance of any traditional medical system to date. It is important for people in China to know this and understand how much the world values China’s medical heritage.

From your point of view, what do you think is the most wonderful part of Chinese traditional medicine culture and wisdom?

There are many valuable and important aspects of TCM. For me, the most important aspect is that which is almost completely forgotten these days. And that is from the Encyclopedia of Medicine (Qianjin Fang) by the 7th century physician and scholar Sun Simiao. In the first two books of his Encyclopedia of Medicine, Sun Simiao outlined lifestyle pathways that prevent disease, promote health and contribute to longevity. Many of these, such as correct diet, regular exercise, a stress-free mind, have been shown by scientific research to do exactly what Sun Simiao was predicting – to create a healthy, long life lived happily. Medicine is not so necessary when these guidelines for disease prevention are followed and health is made a priority in life. We have in this work what can be called Traditional Chinese Wellness or TCW, 1,400 years before wellness became popular as a global theme. Other very valuable aspects of TCM include, of course, acupuncture, which offers very good treatments for many conditions and for pain reduction without the use of drugs. This is supported by a very large body of research. And Chinese herbal medicine which is a vast area of science with deep understanding of individual differences in metabolic types and medical needs.

In recent years, in China, no matter whether in hotel spas or day spas, there are fewer and fewer spas providing TCM treatment. The average age of guests is falling, and traditional Chinese medicine seems to no longer attract them as a stylish lifestyle aspect in China. Also there are fewer skilled TCM therapists willing to enter the spa industry. Do you have any advice on how to deal with these issues?

I think that there are a few mistakes in this way of thinking. Firstly, from what I read and learn from surveys, the young generations in China are growing in pride for Chinese culture and heritage and are seeking to learn more about this legacy that they have inherited. But doctors in white coats and strange smelling herbs and pharmacies, with explanations that don’t fit well with the scientific training they have had at school and university, all make for some confusion in understanding China’s medical heritage. On this point, there is a need for new ways of explaining TCM and offering it to younger generations that make it seem relevant, scientific, natural, safe and proudly carrying on a powerful healing heritage. This is a big opportunity in online learning, education and knowledge-sharing.

The second mistake is to offer Chinese medicines at Spas. What is better is to offer education and knowledge coming from Sun Simiao’s guidance on how to live a long and healthy life. That is, TCW rather than TCM. And to offer practices that promote this, education about how to do this, and evidence on how these approaches produce real change and improvement in health. Another factor is the sense that the doctor knows everything and that the patient must follow orders. This doesn’t feel comfortable to a new generation that finds its answers online and has many questions about how and whether medicines actually work. What is needed is co-learning, sharing of health guidelines through knowledge sessions, a partnership in wellness education rather than a hierarchical doctor-patient relationship where the patient is not educated but rather just told what to do. Wellness must come from within and be fed with knowledge to help it grow.

How to integrate the health care and wellness living wisdom of TCM into daily life in the modern world? How do you do this for your own lifestyle?

For a start, China and the world need to re-discover TCW – Sun Simiao’s first two volumes in the Encyclopedia of Medicine – and learn how to apply these. At present, this is largely forgotten.  There is a huge opportunity for new courses, services, centres and wellness programs that can come from this.

As for myself, my main daily aspects of TCM philosophy are Chinese herbs, especially goji berries every day, a regular use of Chinese vegetarian cuisine, daily enjoyment of green tea, a drink favoured by China’s ancient scholars and an excellent aide in focusing the mind. And also constantly being in Nature to reconnect with our source, as is recommended by Sun Simiao.

Do you have anything else that you want to share with us, about TCM?

Yes. TCM and TCW belong to Chinese people everywhere and to the world, because they come from an understanding of the deep organizing principles of Nature and human physiology. This should become something that Chinese people come to know and live and feel ownership of, and not something that they see as belonging to people in white coats with specialist knowledge. This is knowledge to be lived and used for promoting longevity, health and happiness in life.

An interview with Ms. Lisa Lam, Director of Spa & Wellness of naked Retreats

naked Home and naked Stables are known for luring thousands of Chinese to escape from their glamorous yet high-strung city lives to return back to Nature. After ten years, naked enjoys the reputation of being the most sought-after resort in the east China region.

Had he not met his future wife, architect Delphine Yip, in 2007, who later designed naked Stables, entrepreneur Grant Horsfield would have returned to South Africa. Despite the great opportunities in Shanghai, stress is everywhere, and people willingly trade quality of life for success. He was constantly homesick for Nature and an active, healthy lifestyle.

Grant stumbled upon Moganshan after getting lost on his bike in a bamboo forest. It was love at first sight, and thus “naked Home” opened. It was a place to rediscover the pure, playful, and passionate side of your heart, to be immersed in Nature and nurture friendship, love and the simple pleasures of life. Four years later, Grant and Delphine built the much larger naked Stables in a nearby valley. And the rest is history. Now there are 5 naked Retreats in China and the aim is to have 25 naked Retreats open by 2022.

“At naked Leaf Spa – naked Retreats, we rebalance the body and soul to bring out the real you. Through living in the luxurious and comfortable environment, we bare ourselves in the tranquil Nature.” Lisa Lam, Director of Spa & Wellness of naked Retreats said.

Lisa Lam has more than 15 years experience in the spa and wellness business at premium 5-star hotels and resorts. She joined naked in 2012, and is now in charge of the SPA and wellness product and service development, daily operations and training, and customized program planning. Lisa is also responsible for maximizing the financial performance of all Spa areas. Besides Spa and wellness responsibilities, since 2018 Lisa has been in charge of naked Things – naked branded product and service offerings.

“Discover your own path to peace, serenity and complete health at naked Leaf Spa, naked Retreats. A walk through the misty mountains of Moganshan refreshes your senses. The sea of green bamboo waves in the wind and fresh water runs through the streams. The noise of the city drops away. As the clouds lift, the backdrop shifts, and you find yourself renewed.” SpaChina interviewed Lisa.

Why it is important to have the wellness concept and wellness package within the naked Retreats? How does the spa contribute to the resort business as an important facility?

At naked Retreats, we believe that HEALTH is tangible. It is highly personal. The most natural state of the human body is that of wellness. When functioning properly, the body has an impressive ability to heal itself from many ailments. Wellness is not a concept, but an experience!

naked Retreats launches every year a new and unique Wellness program that hasn’t been seen in any other Hotels or Resorts in China.

Besides our spa brand, naked Leaf, naked Retreats aims to launch a new sustainability Wellness program to offer more experiences and services to our guests. Most people fall way short of living healthy, even though health is very high on their scale of importance. Not many people have ever had their health exceed their level of belief on how important health is. And for a continued sustainability image in the leisure industry, naked Retreats experience are high tangible and measurable outcomes with instant and medium-term gratification. We sincerely hope every guest would enjoy staying with naked, and take health home.

Spa contributes to the resort business as an important facility and a unique brand touch. From an operations standpoint, spas can generate significant revenue. A spa is no longer an amenity, it’s a profit sector.

How do you see the use of high-technology in terms of people’s daily wellness?

To me, for some spa treatments, it is great to combine traditional techniques and technology to create an amazing result. Technology has made it possible to maintain and build on results obtained in a professional setting for Spa treatments, special for facial and detox. It was an obvious evolution for me, and the response has been incredible from our guests.

At naked Retreats we update new treatments techniques to provide for the needs of our customers. We use, for example, a very popular facial machine technology brand.

But we never forget the most important thing of all! Keep a warm connection between therapist and customer, and don’t overuse technology.

And we are going to bring Watsu to naked Retreats, it needs a high-tech pool that can maintain a comfort temperature and is better combined with mineral or sea salts for healing results. But, on the other hand, Watsu provides deeply relaxing effects of warm water and nurturing support, combined with unique movements, stretches, massage and point work, to create a bodywork with a range of therapeutic benefits and potential healing on many levels. I also want to call this high-tech, a high level technique from rich experience by human hands and sensitive care.

For anti-aging and longevity subject, do you think spa and spa resorts are playing a good role?

People nowadays care about their health and wellness more, and a lot of new technologies and services can be relevant to achieve, let’s say, the objective of anti-aging. I think spa always plays a good role to guide our customers to relax and enjoy a balanced-healthy life.

As a resort and lifestyle brand leader, naked Retreats plan to build a model on integrating the following six key lifestyle factors to enrich our capabilities to offer more to our guests from a broader view of wellness:

•  Exercise and Movement
•  Diet and Nutrition
•  Health Practices
•  Communication and Relationships
•  Commitment and Contribution
•  Presence and Purpose

Health has both measurable and immeasurable qualities spread out over a time frame of immediate to decades. Most health programs function on either one of the other. Medical-based programs on the measurable and ‘wellness’ styled programs on the other. Both have important values and therefore we wish to build systems that fully integrate both the measurable outcomes with the sense of wellbeing attributed to better health and lifestyle.

What are the top three treatments in your spa and how much per treatment?

The top three treatments at naked Leaf Spa are: naked Leaf Signature massage, naked Bamboo massage and naked Healing Esalen massage. Price: 880rmb for 60 minutes.

The naked Leaf massage techniques developed here is intended to view the body as connected equally to the spirit, mind, emotions, as well as the physical.

The massage treatments that we have created at naked Leaf Spa are escalated to a “healing art” that was first developed back in 1975 in Vietnam. The overall techniques are Vietnamese traditional combine with Swedish massage.

It is much like meditation. It aspires to integrate several forms of healing and wellness to bring profound relaxation and balance to customers.

Therapists must focus on connecting to the client on a deeper, more spiritual level, as they concentrate on “integrating strokes and slow, deep muscle work to release everyday stresses.” The focus remains centered on relaxation, but many forms of massage are integrated into one holistic experience. And as each therapist is trained to view the body as a whole, they attempt to genuinely tune into each person, in efforts to “accommodate specific requests and preferences.”

It is firmly believed that massage aids each person by connecting to their higher, most positive sense of self. Healing the body also heals the mind, creating an infinite circle of health and happiness, where one area constantly nourishes and feeds the other.

When one system is lacking, naked Leaf massages can help to realign it to best serve overall optimal functioning. The goals of the naked Leaf massages are to reintegrate and realign the body and its natural abilities to ward off stress, illness, and life’s myriad challenges.