Category: Interview

Interview with Mr. Sam Crispin, MRICS,
Senior Director Regional Sustainability & ESG, Asia Pacific, Savills

Sam Crispin leads Savills sustainability and ESG internal reporting and external consultancy in the Asia-Pacific region. He has more than 25 years’ experience in city development in mainland China including a range of ESG-related topics such as sponge cities, healthcare and education projects.

His involvement in sustainability dates from 1992 when his Bachelor’s Degree dissertation covered the environmental and social costs and benefits of the Three Gorges Dam, the world’s biggest hydropower project. He is a Chartered Surveyor and has a Master’s Degree in Corporate Environmental Governance from the University of Hong Kong.

SpaChina has rarely if ever interviewed experts outside the area of hospitality, wellness, fitness and beauty, but this interview with Mr. Sam Crispin touches on core factors related to the future of our industry, based on his rich experience in China’s real estate industry, including his views on sustainable lifestyles.

When did you first come to mainland China? What impression did you have of the overall living environment at that time?

My first visit was back in 1988 before I spoke any Chinese. I undertook a thirty-day backpacking trip. The overall impression was the warmth and kindness of the Chinese people. Of course there were difficulties getting train tickets and hotel rooms without advance booking, but the system functioned and foreign visitors were treated very well. There were a few glimpses into living conditions but actually I was quite impressed with the way homes functioned and the way people generally seemed to manage with very little. In particular I remember being invited into a village home in rural Guangxi in August 1988 towards the end of my trip, I enjoyed one of the simplest and tastiest meals of my life. Over the years since then, this kind of hospitality has been repeated many times over.

On that first trip I took the cruise from Chongqing through the Three Gorges to Yichang. That later inspired me to write my undergraduate dissertation on the environmental and socials costs and benefits of the then proposed Three Gorges Dam, the largest hydropower project in the world. In a way that was an ESG report because a great deal of the content was related to governance. I completed that 30 years ago and today I am working in sustainability in ESG with a focus on the built environment.

How many years have you been working in mainland China? In these years, what kind of major changes did you see, especially in terms of the living environment?

Following my trip in 1988, I went to study Chinese full time for four years and I moved to live in Shanghai in 1994 and stayed until 2017 when I moved to Hong Kong. The living environment has changed beyond recognition for most urban residents. They have more space, better quality apartments with air conditioning. When I think back to the 1990s, when it was common to see people sleeping on the streets in summer, the difference today is unimaginable. I also remember the cooking on the streets with coal briquettes. The smell of coal was ever present. Not to mention the ‘special odour’ of Suzhou Creek. Open spaces and parks that most Chinese cities enjoy today are the icing on the cake.

About sustainable living, what is the major difference between sustainable and regular? Why is sustainable more and more stressed and rewarded?

Sustainability means not using more of resources than can be replenished. It does not have to mean a big change in lifestyle, but it may mean lots of smaller changes. Reducing the use of air conditioning and opening a window or using a fan instead, shorter showers, eating less meat and replacing it with beancurd are other examples. It does not mean never using air conditioning, not showering or becoming vegetarian. It may also mean things like landscaped areas that use native species rather than exotic ones that need extra water or other care. The emphasis on sustainability comes from the need for humans to reduce the amount of resources from the planet that are used in order to reduce emissions that are harmful to the environment and contribute to climate change.

Which countries in the world are the most advanced in sustainable lifestyles?

Actually, the China I visited in the late 1980s was very sustainable in many respects, but it wasn’t very comfortable. No one wants to suggest going backwards, but we have to move forwards to rediscover some of what we have lost. These days, China leads the way in many sustainable technologies, including electric vehicles and solar power. In terms of the regulatory environment, the European Union is leading the way. In power generation, Iceland and New Zealand are now 85% and 80% respectively reliant on renewable energy.

What kind of sustainable solutions will be included in future property development?

Property is very carbon intensive with both embedded carbon from the building materials and the operational carbon from day-to-day use. In Hong Kong, for example, building-related energy consumption accounts for 90% of total energy used in the city.

For existing commercial buildings, the most important aspect is reducing energy consumption and in many cases 20-30% savings can be made by implementing some basic changes such as LED lighting and optimising machinery efficiency. Many buildings in China have already done this. The next stage is green leases whereby landlord and tenant work together to make further savings.

For residential blocks, it is very much up to the owner or occupier to make changes and they may or may not be willing to do that. Energy efficiency is best when built into housing and residents need to be helped to understand the role they can play. I know many cities like Shanghai have already adopted recycling measures which requires separation of rubbish before collection. Having appropriate facilities and dedicated storage areas in buildings makes this much easier.

What about the hospitality industry? Do you see any hotels and resorts which are focusing on the sustainable concept?

Hotels are perhaps the hardest property sector to make sustainable due to the operations. Hospitality is by its nature short-term while sustainability is longer term, but progress has been made. Sensors in rooms can help monitor energy use and adjust lighting and air conditioning when no one is present. Waste reduction is another area, and again, hotels in China have made changes to help manage this. Another area is in hotel kitchens where food waste can be reduced by adapting menus and on-site composting so that less compostable waste ends up in landfill. Another kitchen area is collection of cooking oil for recycling into bio diesel, and in some countries fossil fuel-free kitchens have been introduced. It’s important to reduce the frequency of washing sheets and towels to save water and detergent, and to use environmentally friendly materials on all consumables as much as possible. It’s difficult to imagine wok-based cooking on an electric hob, but new technology is making all sorts of things possible.

When a hotel is at the stage of pre-planning or design, it is easier to add the concept of sustainability into the mix. For example, energy-saving design can reduce energy consumption. If it is a resort on an island, it can consider installing its own water circulation system. Of course, these initial investments are larger than for ordinary hotels and resorts, but in the long run, they are worthwhile.

What kind of future direction would you like to see for the real-estate sector, especially hotel and resort industry related real-estate?

It is important to remember that hotels and resorts provide valuable jobs for local communities, often in areas where well-paid jobs are scarce. They also help employees develop essential knowledge and skills for other parts of the service sector. I have often employed people who started their working life on a reception desk or opening doors for guests. If you have those basic service instincts you are in a good place for your future career. As a student, I worked as a cleaner for several months.

Helping guests understand the need for sustainability and encouraging them to change their behaviour is probably the most important thing hotels can do beyond implementing their own operational efficiencies. The multiplier effect of this is that guests may take those lessons home with them. The difficulty, of course, is that guests have certain expectations and requirements when they are spending a lot of money to stay in a hotel and may not appreciate being told what they can and cannot do. Perhaps working with local NGOs or social enterprises may be part of the solution for things like soap recycling, then this can be turned into a positive external message for the hotel or resort.

Interview with Mr. Stephen Yas,
Director of China office/Design Director, bKL Architecture, LLC

With over 40 years of strong design oriented and stabile leadership experience in the industry, Mr. Stephen Yas is an architectural leader with passion who both inspires clients and also mentors team members, an accomplished architect with extensive international experience who bridges East and West on large complex mixed-use retail architecture, urban design and hospitality projects. Endeavoring to find the spirit and soul in every project, he believes that architecture and urban design are about place, context and an emotional response to physical space.

Stephen’s body of work includes prestigious mixed-use developments, commercial, hospitality, high-rise and corporate headquarters, among other sectors. He has been involved with many prestigious national and international award-winning projects, and has received recognition from the American Institute of Architects, HUD, Oxford University and Ohio University. He has been a lecturer at many architectural schools, and is a much sought-after public speaker and frequent contributor to architectural publications.

When did you come to China? What was your impression at that time? After so many years, what changes do you think have taken place in China?

I first came to China in 2004 and traveled back and forth from the USA for eight years bringing work back to my firm in Chicago. In 2012, I moved to Shanghai to live and work. In the early days, there was an abundance of work. Most clients had no experience in real estate development, and most local architects who did the construction drawings should not have. It required a lot of mentoring and assistance from international architects. In more recent years, with education abroad in the UK, USA and Australia, the improvement of local architects is significant. China’s architectural education has changed as well. In the past, students were only taught construction techniques of how to put a building together technically. Now design is taught in the leading architectural schools in China. And most clients are more professional now. The less experienced clients have left the business. In many larger cities like Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Shanghai and Beijing, the government is more involved with experienced professionals.

You’ve mentioned to find the spirit and soul in every project, that architecture and urban design are about place, context and an emotional response to physical space. Why you think this is important?

Buildings should not fall from the sky and land in an unexpected context. They should be site-specific and grow out of the ground. The buildings are not about architecture, they are a vessel to hold, nurture and uplift the inhabitants therein. Each building or grouping of buildings should be a modern interpretation of a contextual China story that the user can relate to. The buildings are “stageset walls” to form enclosures for community gathering spaces from an urban design perspective.

Our goal is not only to make the project beautiful and practical, but also to ensure that more and more people will be attracted to the project after it is launched, so as to further improve the community and area where the project is located and make it full of vitality. A good project can really achieve popularity from scratch, which requires understanding the purpose of the project and pick up the spiritual parts it wants to convey from the beginning, that is, the transmission of emotions and feelings.

How do you make a design creative and unique? How do you combine artistry with practicality?

Architecture is art and science combined. Form follows function and then is raised to a higher plateau of art. Function can be creative and innovative, and explore new ways of doing things never dreamed of. I am reminded of a quote from Robert Kennedy: “Some people see things as they are and say why, I see things as they should be and say why not.”

Speaking of practicality, this must be taken into account. As a Jew, I am quite pragmatic. For each project, I will accurately consider the project income of the owner, and not only focus on making it good-looking, but also it is practical and easy to use. If it is a commercial project, it is necessary to attract investment. There are many ways to attract investment, for example, I will consider using an energy-saving sustainable design to reduce the operating costs of merchants. As long as the merchants are satisfied with how things are, the owner of the project party will see a return on their investment. Therefore, practicality is a very important factor that must be considered comprehensively.

Please share with us the two most interesting projects you have designed related to environmental protection and sustainability. What are their highlights?

The first project is the Kaiyuan Senbo Holiday resort in Deqing (near Morganshan).  It is an 1,800 mu health and wellness family resort with 450 villas in an ecological natural setting of water and mountains in a valley. There are six special villas actually on the mountains, and there is also a denser village with two 200-room hotels, plus retail, restaurants, an indoor water park and a conference center. No cars are allowed on site. You leave your car in the parking lot and there are electric shuttle trams throughout the site for transportation. There are also historic nature trails throughout the resort. It opened in December 2019 and has experienced almost 100% occupancy since.

The second project is the UBTECH Robotics Headquarters, Shenzhen.  It is a 212-meter high tower that creates a health and wellness sustainable workplace environment for the geniuses of UBTECH. The China story we use at the heart of the building’s design is the Eight Immortals of 3,000 years ago (Liaoxin) . There are eight skygardens on the exterior within the perimeter megaframe steel structure, each one landscaped and themed in honor of one of the immortals.  There is a terra cotta louver skin over the entire tower with sun sensors which moves during the day to keep the glass and skygardens in shade. The building is now under construction  and will be completed in the spring of 2023.

Have you noticed that there are more and more wellness resorts being developed around the world? From your point of view, what kind of “regional experience and local sense” and “experience economy or say economic return”, and “wellness and sustainable” are essential to be included in the design process of these projects?

Society today is in general more aware of health and wellness. People are exercising more. It has become an industry in itself so its extension into the area of resorts and spas is natural. There are local spa treatments that can come from the local region. In China, due to Covid and the regulations regarding entry to and exit from China since 2020, the hospitality industry has expanded quite well all over the country, at least until the recent lockdowns.

Since 2020, due to China’s entry-exit restrictions, people have no way to travel abroad, which has resulted in the local hotel industry doing very good business nationwide. But at the same time, we can also see that there is a gap between local Chinese health resorts and foreign resorts of the same level in terms of hardware and operations. I feel that once the door is opened, a large number of Chinese guests will travel abroad, because the current level of many domestic resorts is certainly unable to retain Chinese guests. I have heard from many Chinese guests that the cost vs performance ratio in Thailand and Japan is much better, and includes even more choices for wellness projects, including delicious food.

So, how to make Chinese local hotels and resorts more competitive? That is, what should we do in the design and planning right from the beginning? The key concepts are “Sense of region”, “Wellness and sustainability” and “Economic return capability”. To put it simply, the project must have attractive local characteristics and cannot be stereotypical. The concept of health and sustainability needs to be thoroughly discussed with the owner and the operator at the initial stage of design, so that it can be implemented into the daily operations as much as possible. About the capability of an economic return, that is for sure what every investor is looking for, and it is also an most important point we should consider in the design scheme. It is always a must. Individuality and creativity for a experienced designer should be expressed within that context.

Health and wellness focused resorts will be built near major cities in China and around the world for years to come. I was working on one luxury resort near Nanjing that even has a branch clinic from a major local hospital as well as a tea plantation. It is a positive trend.

How do you keep fit and stay healthy during your busy schedule?

I go to the gym 3-4 times a week. Workout and swimming, martial arts, sports, hiking across the city to explore new areas. Doing adventure trips that set me on workout goals, like the Gobi Desert Elite Challenge (108 km in 4 days) last year or climbing Mt. Kilimanjaro (5,900 meters) a few years ago. I am a healthy man and full of energy.